On October 23rd, the moderators of Webringnews apparently had enough and decided they were going to delete the club. In it's place they announced they were going to create two new clubs.
What problems this as intended to solve is anyone's guess.
This will be short and simple. I will be closing the webringnews club at midnight Thursday October 26th.
I will be replacing this club with Two others: Web Ring News 2000 - Yahoo! WebRing RingMasters Discussion Forum Y Web Ring News 2000 - Yahoo! WebRing Problem Discussion Forum
Both clubs already exist (you can sign up for both now if you wish) but will be cleared out of any posts before opening at 12:01 am to 12:30 am Friday October 27th. At opening or shortly thereafter I'll post the "Mission Statement" and guidelines if any as the first post in each club. After that they will be open for your use.
Web Ring News 2000 will be monitored, however monitored is completely different from moderated. Y Web Ring News 2000 will be moderated, however this type of moderating is not what you see on TV.
Special Note: While Marissa and myself have communications with Y!WR we do not speak for the Y! or WR as staff members. We are strictly volunteers and get no pay in return. We do this because we like to help.
Bob Marion - Founder Web Ring News 2000/Y Web Ring News 2000
pamster_2000 (F/Encinitas, CA)
Re: for any who may be banned and don't
10/23/00 9:03 pm
>> I will be replacing this club with Two others: Web Ring News 2000 - Yahoo! WebRing RingMasters Discussion Forum Y Web Ring News 2000 - Yahoo! WebRing Problem Discussion Forum <<
Now what IS the point of this? For one, I'll bet it's to dump all the messages. Otherwise, why do it? To get rid of the deadwood members, who signed up and never came back?
Why make 2 of them. They already have the problem reporting one. And this one exists for the discussion - and they already "monitor" it...
Strange, very strange.
I'm not posting in either one of them, myself. They're are still being "moderated/monitored" by the very people who treated us so badly.
Pam
tara_sweetz (F/Venus)
the new clubs
10/23/00 9:25 pm
I agree. why make 2 new clubs? if they want a moderated, follow the rules or we kick your bee hind club they have the first one, and if they want to leave the impression of some actual freedom of expression, then make one for that, cuz that sure doesn't apply to the existing one. i think they're mad about being overpowered with all of the non-bannable posts (we have been making it hard to ban us and have a viable reason), so they're runnin for the hills and deleting our voices....
pamster_2000 (F/Encinitas, CA)
Re: the new clubs
10/23/00 9:34 pm
Do you suppose that it's a reason to delete all those posts - AND thus delete the evidence of the amount of deleting that they've done...
AND, it's just a TAD late in the game to be creating one for "discussion"... They should have done that weeks/months ago. TOO little and WAY TOO LATE!!
Pam
frustrated_al
new clubs
10/23/00 9:34 pm
They failed at running webringnews. Are we supposed to just forget everything that happened there and fall in line behind them?
By owning both clubs they will be in control of everything that is said. I don't think they like this open forum and want to close it down. I wish them luck.
They are learning Y!'s procedures. Don't give any reasonable early warning about an imposed change. Don't ask for opinions about what is needed. Ignore the multitude of recommendations that have been given on how to make the club successful.
They didn't post any notice to the club. They (apparently) emailed it to all club members.
I give them both credit for wanting to help and for giving so much of their time. BUT I would hope they would realize that they are causing more problems than they are solving, and that they need to change their procedures. Wanting to help without understanding what needs to be done just doesn't work
qa_jamesshuggins_20001023
Two New Clubs: A Personal View
10/23/00 10:00 pm
While I share the skepticism, cynicism and, some would say, realism, of many of you, let me offer a counter opinion.
In the emotional intensity of this dispute, I have said a few things I wish I hadn't. I have made a few posts I wish I could retract. But I am comforted by the facts that anyone can make a mistake and forgiveness is possible.
Do I disagree with some of what The Bob has said and done? Sure. And I am certain that the feelings are reciprocated to some of what I have said and done.
Were I where The Bob is, I might be looking for a way to say "I did some things wrong; I want to do things differently." And this might be my way of making that fresh start.
Perhaps I'm more sympathetic because I have been there: guilty of a major personal transgression, looking for a way to put it behind me and "start over". Perhaps it is part of my psychological aversion to conflict and my desire to be a peacemaker. Perhaps it is, as has been noted noted, my desire to be both inside and outside. Perhaps all of these.
Now what I see is an attempt to separate the old club into two clubs. I'm not yet certain of the criteria, but perhaps
Web Ring News 2000 Yahoo!
WebRing RingMasters Discussion Forum
Monitored not moderated
??Free wheeling, more open, fewer "rules"
Y Web Ring News 2000 Yahoo!
WebRing Problem Discussion Forum
Moderated
??Just the facts, ma'am; problems/solutions
That is, one Yahoo! connected and constrained and one NOT Yahoo! connected and more free wheeling. But I'm just guessing.
For my part, just for me personally, I'm willing to wait to judge and to work to judge only on the future.
I say this not to attempt to convince any of you, but only to express my own feelings.
James S. Huggins http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/rng1/wazillion_navbars_project.htm
pamster_2000 (F/Encinitas, CA)
Re: Two New Clubs: A Personal View
10/23/00 10:16 pm
James signed: >>James S. Huggins http://www.JamesSHuggins.com/h/rng3/yahoo_navbars.htm <<
Hmmm - wonder if that signature would be accepted in EITHER club. ;-)
In response to the rest of your message - I would say that the only way that we'll know for sure what their intentions or reasons are - is if they TELL US... Didn't see any telling us in that message.
Haven't we explained to them, repeatedly, that when there is no communication - rumor and conjecture will abound? So they make an announcement - with no explanation, no real communication - and here we are conjecturing about what it really means.
Discussion Group - what are they going to discuss? Will someone from Y! really ask a question, ask for input, and read our responses? that might be kind of cool - 2 or 3 months ago!!! NOW, I'm not at all interested in providing any input to yahoo on how to improve their system. Will they read the responses directly, or will the comments be filtered through the "monitors" - colored with THEIR view of the way that it should be, what THEY think is important, how THEY think things should work, or how THEY interpret the input of the group?
What brought this about? Is it yet another yahoo attempt to stop the mass exodus?
Pam
SugoiMog
Re: the new clubs
10/23/00 10:32 pm
>> Do you suppose that it's a reason to delete all those posts - AND thus delete the evidence of the amount of deleting that they've done... <<
Yes and YES!!! Especially since there are plans to archive the evidence of their misdeeds.
SugoiMog
Re: new clubs
10/23/00 10:48 pm
An apology would be nice, information would be nice. In the absence of both, I tend to be a bit skeptical.
qa_jamesshuggins_20001023
Re: The End of Webringnews
10/24/00 12:07 am
References?
Citations?
Footnotes?
Bibliography?
and don't forget your color code 3x5 file cards.
James
Anonymous
Re: new clubs
10/24/00 12:10 am
SugoiMog wrote >>>An apology would be nice, information would be nice. In the absence of both, I tend to be a bit skeptical.<<<
I agree. I asked for an explanation of my deleted posts back then, I wrote a plea, I got no response at all. If Marissa was too pigheaded to admit she was biased, Bob could easily have put things right as well. Instead, he posted harsher rules as a response and in no uncertain terms said I should know what messages to leave alone in order not to be deleted. Well, I didn't since I was new. And then the Actively Moderated appeared in the header.
So unlike James, I can find no pity in my heart. You don't just walk away from things like that as if nothing happened.
internet_tips
Re: Two New Clubs: A Personal View
internet_tips 10/24/00 12:25 am
Hi James. I understand what you are trying to say, but my two cents is that a simple apology and change of posting rules would have been simpler, less confusing and less likely to be misunderstood.
This change is completely typical of what Yahoo has been doing to webring lately. What Yahoo should attempt is open, honest dialog with their users and customers. This way they could actually understand what problem they are attempting to solve.
Instead, they assume they know what the problem is - people leaving webringnews in protest - so delete the club and create new ones.
I submit that these people do not have a clue what they are doing.
I think you are making a mistake by assuming you are dealing with reasonable people. You are assuming you are communicating with people who understand.
These people have proven over and over that they do not care, do not want to hear any opposing opinions and are simply interested in their bottom line.
I don't know about you, but I will no longer bend over to pick up the soap in the locker room shower, if you know what I mean. (Was that suitably graphic?)
I've said this before in postings and I will probably say it again. In order to fight evil, it must first be recognized, and then confronted. But never should it be excused or tolerated in any way.
Signed, Richard Lowe
Unless otherwise noted, all photos and text is Copyright © Richard G Lowe, Jr.